Ugly Kid Joe: The Stairway To Hell Interview
1990s rockers / metallers Ugly Kid Joe, who had world-wide hits with ‘Everything About You’ and ‘Cat’s In The Cradle’ in the early 90s, have reformed with much of their classic line-up, and released a 6 track EP called ‘Stairway To Hell’ (physical and download). The band have already played many gigs in 2012, from intimate bars to several Festivals in the UK and across Europe.
Ugly Kid Joe are touring the UK in October, supporting Alice Cooper and co-headlining some dates with ex-G’n’R’s Duff McKagan’s band Walking Papers, with further dates in the UK planned in November.
To coincide with the tour the band are releasing the digital single ‘Devil’s Paradise’ (from the new EP), and the video can be viewed here:
Here, lead singer Whitfield Crane talks to With Guitars’ Joe Geesin about the reformation, the EP and tour, and his influences and interests inside and outside of music.
J: Cool, Anyway this is Jo Geesin with Whit Crane of Ugly Kid Joe, are you enjoying London? A bit of promo?
W: Yep, you’re the first interview I got here yesterday; Heathrow approximately 12 in the afternoon collected by Luke my tour manager and dumped off wherever this area is, Oxford?
J: Oxford Circus.
W: That’s right.
J: Close to?
W: Yeah, from the Hotel I just literally walked here, so all is well.
J: So how’s the reunion going?
W: It’s great.
J: How have the audiences been on the tour so far?
W: Oh amazing.
J: Still enthusiastic?
W: Yes, we didn’t know what to expect but we wondered that very question, what would happen? It’s been fifteen years so we went and made our music and got great shows, club shows, big shows, small shows, and everywhere we’ve gone has been magnificent.
J: Because you’ve done some of the festivals haven’t you?
W: That’s correct.
J: And how was Israel?
W: Israel was fascinating. I didn’t think in this life I would ever get to go to Israel.
J: That’s was with G ‘n’ R wasn’t it?
W: Guns ‘n’ Roses and Ugly Kid Joe! We were there, pleasantly there with three days off, so if you had to have days off anywhere on tour it might as well be Israel. We went with all the Guns ‘n’ Roses guys, minus the singer, we all went to erm….What the fuck is it called?
J: Telavive wasn’t it?
W: Yeah yeah yeah, we were in Telavive but we went to Jerusalem, oh god I’m slow! I just got up. We went to Jerusalem and had a twelve hour experience we saw all the ancient things. It’s hard to put into words this magnificent experience I was afforded through this reunion, so Hooray. We jumped in the Mediterranean Sea, met all kinds of cool people, but yeah Israel was a trip!
J: So what prompted the reunion?
W: Dave Fortman and Shannon Mark.
J: Did you take much persuading?
W: Clause would have taken more persuading than me! I lovemaking music, I would probably have done this five or six years ago but Clause my best friend and guitar player he’s never been into it so Dave Fortman the guitar player of Ugly Kid Joe has gone on to be a fantastic and functional and celebrated rock producer Slipknot, Evanescence, Mudvane all these big bands, so he’s a producer. Shannon is also in a band called Godsmack, so I think they were working on the second Godsmack record and called Clause and said “Hey man, let’s make some music!”, and then for me I went “Yes!”. I love those guys the thread that keeps some… I mean for Clause we grew up together, we grew up as kids, so when this band was over we went back to being friends the geography is the same our friends are the same so that’s just a natural but for someone like Dave Foreman or Shannon Mark or Sonny Mayo or Cordel Crocket or any of these guys I work with, I’m sure you’ve seen this before, the thread that keeps us together is music, we love each other, but if we’re not playing in a band then we just sort of drift apart so it’s been really beautiful to drift back into this musical force. Really familiar, real healing, really exciting, I mean the fact that it’s working you know is a plus!
J: So has it been easy to write songs? Write new material?
W: There’s lots to draw from you know I don’t know if the words easy but natural.
J: Do you play a guitar yourself?
W: No, in my mind I do!
J: I was just wondering if that helps with writing if you knew how to play?
W: I write all day long! I write melodies and lyrics and I just got to wait for wherever they get to go. I have certain lyrics and certain melodies in my head that for fifteen years that try to get born into songs. Everyday I’m writing, everyday I’m recording on my phone or on some kind of recording device.
J: So you’ve done this EP, Stairway to Hell, is there an album planned?
W: You know funny enough we were just talking about that. Planned in the sense of slated time and all that then no but do we all want to do it then yes but when you say album I would probably say eight or nine songs maximum. Just moduley, so yeah, we’re going to go and make more music. The thing about it is it’s our luxury and our gift as far as where we find ourselves day to day is we’re in house functional. We can go in as a band, you know Dave is a producer, we aren’t scared of the studio anymore and everything we’ve done even me sitting here this is all in house so not only do we want to go make music in the real world but we’ll do it by ourselves and we like that.
J: So how did you get to work with Alice Cooper and Duff McKagan?
W: I would say that came through Dan Devito our booking agent at TKO. He said “Hey man, are you down with this?” and I said “Yeah, for sure.” I mean I’ve never met Alice Cooper but I’m a great fan of Alice Cooper and he is one of the old school masters that have eluded me, ACDC has eluded me and Alice Cooper had eluded me but no more! I will see him in two days.
J: So what can fans expect from the shows?
W: For these shows?
J: Yeah. For these shows what can they expect?
W: Forty minutes of high energy.
J: Right.
W: Yeah.
J: Will you be playing plenty of new songs?
W: We’ll be playing some new songs, yeah. I can tell you something exciting (laughs), I was wondering if I should do it as a surprise you’ll be the first one I tell! In the first show Cardiff, I think that’s in Wales, we’re going to have Phill Campbell from Motorhead and Duff McKagan come up with us and we’re going to play a little song called ‘Ace Of Spades’.
J: I think I’ve heard of that.
W: It’s the prettiest card in the deck.
J: Should be fun.
W: It’s very exciting for us, everything you do…it’s like right now everything you did led up to this so sometimes you go wow I must be doing something right. So when I have my wagon up there with my microphone and I’m going to say “Hey let’s welcome these motherfuckers up here!” that’s a good moment for me.
J: So you have a real buzz for that?
W: I’m very excited, and grateful, don’t forget grateful.
J: So back in the nineties why did the band break up?
W: Because it was done you know? They were done with it. I would have sung forever and been trying to sing forever in different projects but like any relationship you just have to have the courage to leave it.
J: So natural causes then?
W: I would think so, Clause didn’t want it anymore, I would have forged on forever.
J: Is there much left unreleased from that period?
W: There is some stuff in the vaults.
J: Will it ever come out?
W: No.
J: Are you sure?
W: Who’s to say? But I would say no. But there’s a bunch of shit.
J: Were you surprised by the success of the single ‘Everything About You’?
W: Yes, absolutely. You see once again that’s… I mean surprise would be an understatement because we weren’t ready for all of that and we didn’t know, I never left California, I mean we played keg parties in Santa Barbara and that was out life and within a six month span we were on tour with Ozzie and Motorhead. I mean for real! The all of a sudden we were going all around the world and playing five thousand seat venues. I mean we were young, we weren’t even that good, not at that time, we grew into a great band I thought, just a great force so surprised, overwhelmed, unprepared a lot of words would describe it.
J: So who are your main influences?
W: In music? Vocally it would be Bon Scott, Ozzie Osbourne, Rob Halford Ronnie Vanzant…
J: You had Rob Halford do backing vocals with you didn’t you?
W: God damn yeah, in 1992’s God damn Double that was cool Mark Dodson knew him from the days of Sin After Sin and Defenders Of The Faith and I was dating Karen Duffy at the time and Halford went into the New York studios and she said “You know my boyfriend is the biggest fan ever.” And then of course with Dodson too it was a perfect storm and all of a sudden at Devon Crash studios came Rob, he wasn’t in Priest then, it was a really weird time. My fanship of Priest is an understatement I love Judas Priest, like I’m obsessed with Judas Priest. So when he came in the studio, I mean remember when I doing Americas Wanted I was a child I didn’t know how to use a microphone I was very uncomfortable in a studio, great live singer but I didn’t really understand the studio and when Rob Halford walked in and listened to the lyrics and goes “Well I like the lyrics. What do you want me to do?” I go “Cruise in there.” And it was my moment to push the talk back button and Rob Halford singing out of the zenheister with the headphones on going one on one off like this and when I watch that dude emote and project he was not scared of the studio. I saw who was who and I was like “Oh my God!” like he became… when he cracked those vocals and I was just able to say “Can we just do a little more off the range, can we have a little more off Devils Child…”. That experience was just so surreal and ridiculous again all things led to that and once again I was like “Ooooh I’m onto something.”.
J: You had your big hit with ‘Cats In The Cradle’, ever been tempted to do any other songs, any other covers?
W: Yes! What was I thinking about recently? Yeah I love cover songs we’re always tempted.
J: Did you do any others in your early days? You know back in the late 80’s?
W: Like in cover bands? Track them or just sing them?
J: Either.
W: Yeah, I used to sing cover songs all the time.
J: Who would you like to sing most? Other than Judas Priest.
W: Montrose, like the first Montrose record with Sammy the American Led Zeppelin had some great vocals, Priest (laughs), Sabbath, ACDC, those are nice, those are my teachers.
J: If you could cover a song now with Ugly Kid Joe what would you cover?
W: Cover a song huh? Cover a song with Ugly Kid Joe… from any era?
J: Yes.
W: Pat Travers (sings) “Snortin whiskey and drinking cocain!”
J: Good stuff.
W: Yeah, maybe that, we were talking about that the other day, cool song to cover.
J; So what was the last record you ever bought?
W: Like proper vinyl record or CD?
J; Either.
W: Dr Octogon.
J: Ok I don’t know it. And the first?
W: The first record I ever bought or got for Christmas?
J; Either.
W: The first record I ever got for Christmas were the Comodors and Johnny Cash. The first record I ever bought with every lint and penny I could save up was ‘Kiss: Alive 2’.
J: And are you a collector? Are you a vinyl collector?
W: Erm no I’m a minimalist.
J: So how do you feel on the digital versus vinyl debate?
W: Vinyl wins. Well you see analogue wins I’m going to tell you these are my memories this is what I came up what I grew up with as a child into a man or whatever you want to say so that experience that textile experience of touching and opening up and pulling out there’s a great foreplay to music there and that’s gorgeous. I mean maybe the album is so scratchy you put a penny or a dime on the pendulum to get through but you open up with Jimmy Hendrix ‘Axis Builds Love’ and your smoking some pot and your separating seeds and stems…so it’s just the artwork of it the sheer artwork of it where is the art touching the art like Led Zeppelin you put water on it and you would pull that out and it would change the colour. Not only the vinyl itself but the packaging was magnificent and it was so cool to hold and there was a different…I don’t know if it bothers me but it’s not familiar to me is that if you listen to a digital format the space between songs to me is too short. I want songs to end and then soak that in before the next song starts but that’s just probably my age it’s just unfamiliarity to me. But without a doubt vinyl’s gorgeous a gorgeous sound and warm it really is.
J: You know vinyl’s sales are slowly on the increase now.
W: I do know that.
J: Is it the same in America?
W: Yeah, yeah.
J: I think people are getting the work of are thing the vinyl and sleeve.
W: I wish it would stay there you know? Digital’s neat because you can push a button and someone in Indonesia can instantly get your music and that’s really interesting to me but everything analogue to me is beautiful. I love that you know.
J: So what one fact about you would most surprise your fans?
W: I’m good at tennis.
J: You play much?
W: Recently I haven’t, I’ve got tennis elbow now.
J: What other sports do you like?
W: Do I like or am I good at?
J: Either.
W: I like sports across the board, sport is of course evolved war and that’s great, that’s one of man’s greatest achievements. I love proper football which we call soccer I like American football which we call football, I love singles tennis more than doubles, I love La Cross, I like watching swimming but I’m not a great swimmer, baseball is great for the playoffs, basketballs great for the playoffs, today’s the biggest game ever San Francisco Bay Giants. I grew up playing soccer, everyone does, I love that sport, I mean snowboarding is what I do a lot of now. What’s interesting about, I don’t know about England, when you’re a kid you get to be on teams, eleven men teams, and that’s an awesome part of life and there are a lot of lessons in that but if you’re not going to be a professional athlete or play at college then those teams dissipate you can get into some Sunday league or something later but it’s not the same so now I end up with singles tennis if you know anyone who want to play but no one really ha the time to play or I’ll just go by myself and \i spend a lot of time by Taho snowboarding and that’s something I can do by myself that’s athletic and has gravity and madness and its awesome so I snowboard a lot and I try surfing a lot but I’m not very good at it.
J: And if you weren’t a musician what would you be?
W: If I wasn’t a musician what would I be…. Erm, probably a bum! Or transient of some kind.
J: But you’ve always been creative?
W: I would think so. I think there are probably a lot of people that have similar idiosyncrasies that I have you’ve heard the adage many are called few are chosen? So I feel that I’m very fortunate in that I have an outlet that worked out does that make any sense? I think the world is filled with people that can sing or perform or paint or whatever it is they try there’s no rivalries and I’m very fortunate as I’ve said before looking back at the whole experience of my musical career I really get the fact that only now objectively with 2020 being hindsight that nobody gets the first chance that we got. Statistically bands that got to do what we did and survived it that’s a very rare story in itself I’m like “WOW” let alone fifteen years later put the band together and have it work out and in the sense that’s a second chance so that rare, I’m living a rare existence and I’m aware of it I don’t know what I would be you know I’ve never fit in as far as a vocation goes I’ve never fit in a cast I think the education system is flawed it’s known to be flawed when I was a kid and it’s known to be flawed now. I mean there’s great things to be gain from an academic travail but then again I travel a lot, I put my backpack on, I live out of a backpack, and I move around and I believe I’ve been educated by experience, I mean really going someplace and not just kind of going there.
J: Is that where some of your lyrics come from?
W: I suppose, I mean where does it all come from? The subconscious right. Everyday I’m making shit up and the game I play myself sometimes is I will write a cool hook or what I think is a cool hook and I’ll come up with some lyrics or a melody and then sing it and I’m like “That’s great.” And in my heart I will think that’s great and then I won’t tape it or write it down, I never write anything down as I can’t spell I’m embarrassed about my spelling so I won’t write things down or write letters, but what I’ll do is if it’s good enough it’ll still be in my head the next day and if it doesn’t make it I’m like “Fuck, I should have wrote it down!”.
J: So how do you think you compare as a musician now as opposed to when you started?
W: As a singer? I have more tools in the shed than I had as a kid, I was operating on just what raw talent I had whatever I had, energy I had, craziness I had, luck I had, I mean I did not know what I was doing. I wouldn’t say I particularly know what I’m doing now but I’m far more versed in singing than I was being in many different bands and worked with many different people and as I highlighted before when Halford walked into the studio in 1992 I wasn’t comfortable in the studio singing, if it wasn’t a live show it didn’t make sense to me, now I’m not scared to go into the studio and really project it’s a common ground for me as far the difference being I’m more present in the studio to be creative and I have more faith in myself as a vocalist than I did before and I have this more stylistically I have more control over my voice than I did before and funny enough I stopped smoking cigarettes about two and a half years ago amongst other things I stopped the interesting thing about taking things that may be toxic to the human condition out of the experience is right now to go back to your question what’s the difference is being clear particularly cigarettes is I’m stronger now vocally than I’ve ever been ever so that’s a big difference.
J: So any plans for Ugly Kid Joe after the tour?
W: Yeah, we’re coming back here like literally in three weeks we’re coming to play some weird show in Wales I dunno what it’s called then we’re playing two or three club shows. We’re coming back in November like 29th or 27thfor like five days.
J: Well hopefully I might see you there.
W: I’d love it!